Amana Air Command 80 Gas Fired Furnace (4 blinks) troubleshooting

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

Can you help me troubleshoot my Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired furnace?

1. Today it stopped heating the house; three red blinks were visible.
The instructions say this means the "pressure switch is stuck open".

2. I could see the "top" (smaller" motor wasn't spinning) but the bottom
(bigger) motor was spinning; so, I guessed, there was no vaccum to the
pressure switch - hence - the pressure switch was stuck in the open (off)
position.

3. To test, I removed the hose from the top (smaller) motor & sucked on it.

4. This self-induced vacuum caused the diaphram to move which caused the
mechanical switch connected to the pressure valve to close (I could see the
switch move when I sucked on it).

5. The flame ignighter heated up and the gas started burning.
The three blinking red LED signal went out; I thought I "fixed" my furnace.

I cycled the power a few times while I cleaned the filters and blew dust
from around the wires.

But ...

6. Then the Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired furnace stopped heating again;
this time, four red blinks were visible!

7. Now the opposite ocurred; the "top" (smaller) motor was now spinning but
the bottom (big) motor was not spinning. No air was circulating through the
house.

8. Four blinks indicate an "open Limit Control (primary or auxilliary)".

8. If I cycle the power to the furnace, it works for about ten minutes and
then the bottom (big) motor stops spinning and the four blinks start again.

I have a few questions:
a) How can I troubleshoot this Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired furnace?
b) Is there a reset switch somewhere?
c) Is there a maintenance guide on the web somewhere?

Thanks,
Donna

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
1. Today it stopped heating the house; three red blinks were visible.
The instructions say this means the "pressure switch is stuck open".

Literally, the instructions say:

<quote>
Pressure Switch Stuck Open
If, after the vent blower is energized, the pressure switch does not close,
the congtrol will keep the blower on and wait for the switch to close. The
diagnostic light code for this problem is three short flashes followed by a
pause. The probable cause is either:
a) disconnected hose to the pressure switch,
b) faulty pressure switch or wiring, or
c) restricted air intake or flue piping.
<end quote>

By pulling the vacuum hose off at the top (smaller) motor side, and sucking
on it, I was able to see the pressure switch diaphragm moved and the
electrical contact closed, causing the heating element to heat up and the
gas to start. So, I could tell the hose was OK (a) and the pressure switch
(b) seemed ok.

That leaves (c).

Can you advise me what it means to have "a restricted air intake or flue
piping"?

Where do I look and what do I do to unrestrict an air intake or flue
piping?

Thanks,
Donna

[Shawn Hirn]

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
Where do I look and what do I do to unrestrict an air intake or flue
piping?

If I were you, I would call a professional repair person to deal with
this problem. You are asking about a piece of equipment that could cause
serious damage to your home and death and injury to you and your family
if you mess with it and screw something up. Call a professional heating
and repair person to fix the problem.

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

Post by Shawn Hirn
Call a professional heating
and repair person to fix the problem.

I did. He'll be out here on Saturday. Isn't there ANY maintenance a
homeowner can do themselves?

I'm sure, from the symptoms, that the "limits" kicked in, probably due to
some problem with air circulation.

Besides the filter (which was very dirty but I replaced it yesterday), what
other maintenance can I do.

For example, someone said clean the A/C coils ... but WHERE ARE THEY?

The furnace is in a tiny closet. The AC fan is outside the house.

Donna

[Vic Smith]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:14:29 GMT, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Post by Shawn Hirn
Call a professional heating
and repair person to fix the problem.

I did. He'll be out here on Saturday. Isn't there ANY maintenance a
homeowner can do themselves?
I'm sure, from the symptoms, that the "limits" kicked in, probably due to
some problem with air circulation.
Besides the filter (which was very dirty but I replaced it yesterday), what
other maintenance can I do.
For example, someone said clean the A/C coils ... but WHERE ARE THEY?
The furnace is in a tiny closet. The AC fan is outside the house.

Leave it alone. Let the pro fix it.
You can ask him about what you can do with the maintenances.
Just keep your pipes from freezing until he gets there.

--Vic

[b***@hotmail.com]

Post by Vic Smith
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:14:29 GMT, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Post by Shawn Hirn
Call a professional heating
and repair person to fix the problem.

I did. He'll be out here on Saturday. Isn't there ANY maintenance a
homeowner can do themselves?
I'm sure, from the symptoms, that the "limits" kicked in, probably due to
some problem with air circulation.
Besides the filter (which was very dirty but I replaced it yesterday), what
other maintenance can I do.
For example, someone said clean the A/C coils ... but WHERE ARE THEY?
The furnace is in a tiny closet. The AC fan is outside the house.

Leave it alone.  Let the pro fix it.
You can ask him about what you can do with the maintenances.
Just keep your pipes from freezing until he gets there.
--Vic

The only maintenance you should do yourself is change the filter
often. They say about once a month, but you could probably get by
with changing it once every 2 or 3 months if you run it with the fan
swith in "auto". Good filters are very important on systems with air
conditioning to prevent the a/c coil (evaporator) from getting plugged
up with dirt and lint. The cheap fiberglass filters are almost
worthless, use the pleated type. As long as you follow the above
suggestion, your evaporator coil will stay clean and you furnace will
last much longer.

If your evaporator coil is dirty, your heating repair person will need
to clean it. It really isn't something that most homeowners can do on
their own. It usually requires cutting a hole in the sheetmetal to
get access to it, and then vacumming it, blowing it out with
compressed air, and/or washing it with chemicals and water. if it is
really plugged up bad it may need to be completely removed from the
furnace and taken outside to wash with the garden hose. This would
require evacuating the refrigerant circuit and cutting the refrigerant
lines.

Like I mentioned in a post above, leave the fan swithch on the
thermostat to "on" untill the service guy can come out. This might
help get more airflow through your furnace and keep it running a
little longer before tripping on the limit switch.

Good luck.

[Stormin Mormon]

From what you've described, your inducer fan needs to be replaced. Gonna be
a job for the service tech.

Buy a portable heater?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Post by Shawn Hirn
Call a professional heating
and repair person to fix the problem.

I did. He'll be out here on Saturday. Isn't there ANY maintenance a
homeowner can do themselves?

I'm sure, from the symptoms, that the "limits" kicked in, probably due to
some problem with air circulation.

Besides the filter (which was very dirty but I replaced it yesterday), what
other maintenance can I do.

For example, someone said clean the A/C coils ... but WHERE ARE THEY?

The furnace is in a tiny closet. The AC fan is outside the house.

Donna

[Bubba]

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:52:44 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

Post by Stormin Mormon
From what you've described, your inducer fan needs to be replaced. Gonna be
a job for the service tech.
Buy a portable heater?

Stormy,
Buy a brain. Yours isnt worth a shit.
Bubba

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
8. Four blinks indicate an "open Limit Control (primary or auxilliary)".

Despite the fact that three blinks and a non-spinning top (smaller) motor
were the initial problem, I now have consistently four blinks and a
non-spinning bottom (larger) motor in my Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired
furnace.

Reading the instructions it says:
<quote>
Open Limit Control (Primary or Auxiliary)
If either limit control opens, the air circulation and vent blower will be
turned on until the limit closes. The diagnostic light code for this is
four short flashes followed by a pause. The probable cause is either:
a) Low conditioned air flow due to dirty filter or resistance in duct work,
b) Faulty limit, faulty blower, or blower speed set too low.
<end quote>

What does that mean?
What is a "limit control"?
Which motor is the "air circulation" (bottom big motor?) blower?
Which motor is the "vent blower" (top small motor?)?

I know the filter is clean because, while it was really dirty, I replaced
it and I still have the problem. I have no idea how to test resistance in
the duct work, but, I didn't change anything to change that, either before
or after the problem ocurred.

I would have no idea how to set the blower speed.

What's a faulty "limit" and how would I test to ascertain the cause?

Donna

[b***@hotmail.com]

On Jan 24, 12:21 am, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
8. Four blinks indicate an "open Limit Control (primary or auxilliary)".

Despite the fact that three blinks and a non-spinning top (smaller) motor
were the initial problem, I now have consistently four blinks and a
non-spinning bottom (larger) motor in my Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired
furnace.
<quote>
Open Limit Control (Primary or Auxiliary)
If either limit control opens, the air circulation and vent blower will be
turned on until the limit closes. The diagnostic light code for this is
a) Low conditioned air flow due to dirty filter or resistance in duct work,
b) Faulty limit, faulty blower, or blower speed set too low.
<end quote>
What does that mean?
What is a "limit control"?
Which motor is the "air circulation" (bottom big motor?) blower?
Which motor is the "vent blower" (top small motor?)?
I know the filter is clean because, while it was really dirty, I replaced
it and I still have the problem. I have no idea how to test resistance in
the duct work, but, I didn't change anything to change that, either before
or after the problem ocurred.
I would have no idea how to set the blower speed.
What's a faulty "limit" and how would I test to ascertain the cause?
Donna

You will need to call someone out to fix your furnace, but here are
some answers to your questions.

The "limit" is a thermostatic switch inside of the furnace that is
there to shut down the burners if it gets too hot. It sounds like
it's doing it's job. The problem you now have sounds like a bad
blower motor (The large motor that circulates air through you house).
Try seting the fan switch on your thermostat to "on" if you can. That
usually will operate the fan on high speed and it may get you by for a
while if it works. If you have air conditioning and you have been
neglecting you air filters, you also may have a plugged up evaporator
coil. The furnace guy will likely need to take apart or cut a hole in
the ductwork surrounding the evaporator coil to inspect and clean it
if needed.

The problems you were having earlier with the pressure switch could be
caused by something getting stuck in the flue. Sometimes, small birds
or other animals like to hang out on the flue pipe on the roof since
it is warm. They then pass out from the carbon monoxide and fall into
the pipe causing a "restriction". Someone will need to disconnect the
flue pipe from the top of the furnace and look inside of it and remove
the dead creature if there is one.

Like I said earlier, time to get the checkbook or creadit card ready
and call a reputible heating company to come out to fix your furnace.
Good luck.

[d***@gmail.com]

Post by b***@hotmail.com
On Jan 24, 12:21 am, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
8. Four blinks indicate an "open Limit Control (primary or auxilliary)".

Despite the fact that three blinks and a non-spinning top (smaller) motor
were the initial problem, I now have consistently four blinks and a
non-spinning bottom (larger) motor in my Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired
furnace.
<quote>
Open Limit Control (Primary or Auxiliary)
If either limit control opens, the air circulation and vent blower will be
turned on until the limit closes. The diagnostic light code for this is
a) Low conditioned air flow due to dirty filter or resistance in duct work,
b) Faulty limit, faulty blower, or blower speed set too low.
<end quote>
What does that mean?
What is a "limit control"?
Which motor is the "air circulation" (bottom big motor?) blower?
Which motor is the "vent blower" (top small motor?)?
I know the filter is clean because, while it was really dirty, I replaced
it and I still have the problem. I have no idea how to test resistance in
the duct work, but, I didn't change anything to change that, either before
or after the problem ocurred.
I would have no idea how to set the blower speed.
What's a faulty "limit" and how would I test to ascertain the cause?
Donna

You will need to call someone out to fix your furnace, but here are
some answers to your questions.
The "limit" is a thermostatic switch inside of the furnace that is
there to shut down the burners if it gets too hot.  It sounds like
it's doing it's job.  The problem you now have sounds like a bad
blower motor (The large motor that circulates air through you house).
Try seting the fan switch on your thermostat to "on" if you can.  That
usually will operate the fan on high speed and it may get you by for a
while if it works.  If you have air conditioning and you have been
neglecting you air filters, you also may have a plugged up evaporator
coil.  The furnace guy will likely need to take apart or cut a hole in
the ductwork surrounding the evaporator coil to inspect and clean it
if needed.
The problems you were having earlier with the pressure switch could be
caused by something getting stuck in the flue.  Sometimes, small birds
or other animals like to hang out on the flue pipe on the roof since
it is warm.  They then pass out from the carbon monoxide and fall into
the pipe causing a "restriction".  Someone will need to disconnect the
flue pipe from the top of the furnace and look inside of it and remove
the dead creature if there is one.
Like I said earlier, time to get the checkbook or creadit card ready
and call a reputible heating company to come out to fix your furnace.
Good luck.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Start your own online business. Sell ebooks/software. Full reprint
rights. http://www.fastdatacash.com/in.php?ix=1959

Make money with your own website. Keep 100% of all profits.
http://www.fastdatacash.com/in.php?ix=1959

Earn tons of cash online selling ebooks/software. http://www.fastdatacash.com/in.php?ix=1959

The best online income opportunity. Operate your own ebusiness.
http://www.fastdatacash.com/in.php?ix=1959

Earn big money by selling ebooks/software with your own website. Keep
all profits for yourself. http://www.fastdatacash.com/in.php?ix=1959

[Stormin Mormon]

Do you think the non spinning smaller top motor may be the problem? D'uh?
You really desperately need a furnace repair tech.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:98Wlj.1441$***@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...

Despite the fact that three blinks and a non-spinning top (smaller) motor
were the initial problem, I now have consistently four blinks and a
non-spinning bottom (larger) motor in my Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired
furnace.



Donna

[Stormin Mormon]

The smaller motor needs to spin, to do several things. Including blow the
carbon monoxide out the chimney. Call a repair company.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:WRVlj.1438$***@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Can you help me troubleshoot my Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired furnace?


2. I could see the "top" (smaller" motor wasn't spinning)

[ransley]

On Jan 24, 12:02 am, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
Can you help me troubleshoot my Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired furnace?
1. Today it stopped heating the house; three red blinks were visible.
The instructions say this means the "pressure switch is stuck open".
2. I could see the "top" (smaller" motor wasn't spinning) but the bottom
(bigger) motor was spinning; so, I guessed, there was no vaccum to the
pressure switch - hence - the pressure switch was stuck in the open (off)
position.
3. To test, I removed the hose from the top (smaller) motor & sucked on it.
4. This self-induced vacuum caused the diaphram to move which caused the
mechanical switch connected to the pressure valve to close (I could see the
switch move when I sucked on it).
5. The flame ignighter heated up and the gas started burning.
The three blinking red LED signal went out; I thought I "fixed" my furnace.
I cycled the power a few times while I cleaned the filters and blew dust
from around the wires.
But ...
6. Then the Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired furnace stopped heating again;
this time, four red blinks were visible!
7. Now the opposite ocurred; the "top" (smaller) motor was now spinning but
the bottom (big) motor was not spinning. No air was circulating through the
house.
8. Four blinks indicate an "open Limit Control (primary or auxilliary)".
8. If I cycle the power to the furnace, it works for about ten minutes and
then the bottom (big) motor stops spinning and the four blinks start again.
a) How can I troubleshoot this Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired furnace?
b) Is there a reset switch somewhere?
c) Is there a maintenance guide on the web somewhere?
Thanks,
Donna

If you have AC look at the coil , clean it if its dirty, is blower
cage dirty, is filter a restrictive type , try to get more air moving,
Just a guess.

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

Post by ransley
If you have AC look at the coil , clean it if its dirty, is blower
cage dirty, is filter a restrictive type , try to get more air moving,

I do have air conditioning as part of this furnace setup.
I never did any maintenance on it (it's about seven or so years old).

I'd be glad to clean this AC coil; where would I find it?
Also, do you know of a good source on the web for furnace & ac maintenance
WITH PICTURES?

[Vic Smith]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:07:39 -0700, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Post by ransley
If you have AC look at the coil , clean it if its dirty, is blower
cage dirty, is filter a restrictive type , try to get more air moving,

I do have air conditioning as part of this furnace setup.
I never did any maintenance on it (it's about seven or so years old).
I'd be glad to clean this AC coil; where would I find it?
Also, do you know of a good source on the web for furnace & ac maintenance
WITH PICTURES?

If you're going to try to fix this, read the troubleshooting manual.
Though newer furnaces are a PITA compared to the older ones,
it's fairly easy to locate the problem.
You said before you sucked a hose and the switch for positive venting
worked.
You didn't say if the venting motor was even starting up.
You might get help from the HVAC guys, but you have to be clear on the
steps you're taking, and exactly what's happening at start-up.
Just make sure you don't try to bypass any of the start-up features.
Very dangerous.

--Vic

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

Post by Vic Smith
You said before you sucked a hose and the switch for positive venting
worked.

Yes. What is happening now is different than what at first happened.

FIRST (three blinking lights)
- The smaller motor (which, thanks to this newsgroup, I belatedly realize
is the combustion air venting motor) wasn't spinning - while the larger
motor (which by the process of elimination is the air circulation blower)
was constantly spinning. Perhaps the "limit" (which I take to be a sensor
that shuts things off when it senses something amiss) kicked in for the air
vent.

NOW (four blinking lights)
- I can get the furnace to work for an hour, two or three, but, eventually
the four blinking lights go on indicating one of the two "limits" have been
breached. The two motors (the smaller combustion venting motor and the
larger air circulation blower) remain running but the gas shuts off so the
flame goes out.

A service technician I called said it's 100 bucks to go out to see it so I
have him scheduled for Saturday (the earliest he could get here). Until
then, I want to learn what MAINTENANCE I could/should do.

Where can I get a PICTURE of the maintenance I should do until then?
Please advise!
Thanks,
Donna

[Bubba]

Donna,
No offense but after reading all your posts you DO seem quite the hard
head. You've had no maintenance what so ever done in seven years, you
run your furnace till the filters are clogged solid and now you want a
quick fix. Do you change the oil in your car/s? Do you go for regular
doctor and dental check ups? Furnaces need regular maintenance.
It is your job to change the filters. Now listen real carefully
because I have a big secret to tell you.
If you and everyone like you changed your filters with a quality
filter on a regular basis I would have very little to do. From your
posts you need to change the filter and let the technician do the
rest.
Bubba

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:49:03 -0700, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Post by Vic Smith
You said before you sucked a hose and the switch for positive venting
worked.

Yes. What is happening now is different than what at first happened.
FIRST (three blinking lights)
- The smaller motor (which, thanks to this newsgroup, I belatedly realize
is the combustion air venting motor) wasn't spinning - while the larger
motor (which by the process of elimination is the air circulation blower)
was constantly spinning. Perhaps the "limit" (which I take to be a sensor
that shuts things off when it senses something amiss) kicked in for the air
vent.
NOW (four blinking lights)
- I can get the furnace to work for an hour, two or three, but, eventually
the four blinking lights go on indicating one of the two "limits" have been
breached. The two motors (the smaller combustion venting motor and the
larger air circulation blower) remain running but the gas shuts off so the
flame goes out.
A service technician I called said it's 100 bucks to go out to see it so I
have him scheduled for Saturday (the earliest he could get here). Until
then, I want to learn what MAINTENANCE I could/should do.
Where can I get a PICTURE of the maintenance I should do until then?
Please advise!
Thanks,
Donna

[Stormin Mormon]

She said the small fan wasn't running.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Vic Smith" <***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

You said before you sucked a hose and the switch for positive venting
worked.
You didn't say if the venting motor was even starting up.
You might get help from the HVAC guys, but you have to be clear on the
steps you're taking, and exactly what's happening at start-up.
Just make sure you don't try to bypass any of the start-up features.
Very dangerous.

--Vic

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

Post by Stormin Mormon
She said the small fan wasn't running.

Only in the beginning. Now both fans run continuously but the flame goes
out, likely because of a limit being reached.

Tomorrow the repairman arrives.

I'm amazed, on the entire net, I can't find a single photographic
description of how to maintain an Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired home
closet furnace.

This is shocking for home repairees.

Donna

[Vic Smith]

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:15:47 GMT, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Post by Stormin Mormon
She said the small fan wasn't running.

Only in the beginning. Now both fans run continuously but the flame goes
out, likely because of a limit being reached.
Tomorrow the repairman arrives.
I'm amazed, on the entire net, I can't find a single photographic
description of how to maintain an Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired home
closet furnace.
This is shocking for home repairees.
Donna

Hey, my Rheem Criterion II is short-cycling, and the troubleshooting
manual is packed away in a box somewhere.
I think it's a limit switch, maybe the flame sensor tossing an error
when it heats up too much, the thermostat, or just rapid heat loss
from the house because it's been near 0F here.
Not a big deal, but the short cycling irritates me.
I've fixed this thing before (ignitor) and the manual was useful.
Couldn't find anything on the net, unless I had a HVAC license or
whatever. I think the repair industry has the manuals locked down.
Kind of makes sense from the safety aspect that they typical homeowner
could get him and his family killed messing with the furnace.
Of course we're not typical, are we?
Anyway, you can find a dealer to get your manuals, but the net is a
poor resource for them.

--Vic

[Stormin Mormon]

Maybe the folks who build them would prefer that only the trained techs work
on them?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Post by Stormin Mormon
She said the small fan wasn't running.

Only in the beginning. Now both fans run continuously but the flame goes
out, likely because of a limit being reached.

Tomorrow the repairman arrives.

I'm amazed, on the entire net, I can't find a single photographic
description of how to maintain an Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired home
closet furnace.

This is shocking for home repairees.

Donna

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

Post by Stormin Mormon
Maybe the folks who build them would prefer that only
the trained techs work on them?

Well, the guy called yesterday and said a client cancelled and ended up
coming over 1 day early.

He fiddled with a paper clip in the combustion motor orifice but that
didn't solve anything. He looked about, here and there, and decided
something was wrong but he knew not what. He cleaned the flame sensor but
that didn't change anything.

He said basically what everyone here said. There is something wrong with
the flow of air because the furnace is shutting itself off. He said we'd
have to pay 400 for his son to come back and clean out the "condenser
coils". I was aghast that he was guessing what the problem was and that his
son was doing the work but he said he was qualified. So, I paid the $100
visit fee and 25% of the cleaning fee as what could I do (you all said we
have to bring over the tech folks).

My new question ... Is this a normal thing where the problem isn't obvious
so you start cleaning? It seems so based on the prior responses here but
I'd like to doublecheck, especially since four days takehome pay (for me)
are riding on this.

Thanks for your advice,
Donna

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

Look in the phone book for who distributes your brand furnace.

I did, I did! I called Amana many times - they are the ones who referred me
to the repairman who showed up at my house. What else would you recommend
other than an Amana-recommended repairman. I don't get it.

Here's what I did ..

First I called the Amana number in the maintenance manual (pretty crappy
manual, I might add) at 800-843-0304. They were closed so a day later I
called again but they referred me to 888-842-2440, which turned out not to
handle furnaces (the Amana personnel didn't know the difference between a
furnace and an air conditioner).

Finally, they referred me to 877-337-3636 which did handle Amana forced-air
furnaces.

That third number provided me, based on my zip code, three possible
repairpeople. I called the first one they gave me and he's the one who came
by.

Are you saying we should not go to the ones Amana recommends?

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

Then call that company and ask what they charge to come out or if they
charge flat rate or hourly.

I called another company, as you advised, and they came out this morning.
They said they'd charge $80 to come out and that would be put toward parts.
They too were not sure what the problem was, but here is verbatim what they
wrote on the sales slip afterward.

Can you help decode this for me? The furnace is working but I think only
because he changed a setting on one of the motors.

Here's what he wrote ...

Found PSC Motor Running slow and High Limit kicking out
& re-setting either bad motor or dirty coil.
More than likely coil.
Motor is not hot to touch.
$80

[Rod Speed]

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Then call that company and ask what they charge to come out or if
they charge flat rate or hourly.

I called another company, as you advised, and they came out this
morning. They said they'd charge $80 to come out and that would be
put toward parts. They too were not sure what the problem was, but
here is verbatim what they wrote on the sales slip afterward.
Can you help decode this for me? The furnace is working but I think
only because he changed a setting on one of the motors.
Here's what he wrote ...
Found PSC Motor Running slow and High Limit kicking out & re-setting

The PSC motor is running slower than it should be and the limit is tripping.

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
either bad motor or dirty coil.

Thats what he thinks is the most likely cause of the above.

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
More than likely coil.

That should be obvious.

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
Motor is not hot to touch.

So its unlikely to be a bad motor.

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
$80

[Gary Heston]

In article <0V5nj.2759$***@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>,
Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
[ ... ]

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
I called another company, as you advised, and they came out this morning.

[ ... ]

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
Here's what he wrote ...
Found PSC Motor Running slow and High Limit kicking out
& re-setting

Describing the problem--the High Limit is being triggered; I believe
that's the high pressure sensor you mentioned earlier. That means the
fan is trying to blow air, but it's backing up. Another possibility
is the motor overheating and triggering it's thermal protection switch,
which will reset when the motor cools orr.

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
either bad motor or dirty coil.
More than likely coil.
Motor is not hot to touch.

The motor isn't over heating, so it and the High Limit are working correctly,
and the problem is that something is obstructing air flow downstream from
the blower--like a coil full of lint and debris, which got that way due to
the filter not being changed monthly like it's supposed to be.

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
$80

What it cost to get the same basic answer your got from the first tech; the
coil needs to be cleaned. Have whichever outfit will charge less do it.


Gary

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
Found PSC Motor Running slow and High Limit kicking out
& re-setting

Describing the problem--the High Limit is being triggered; I believe
that's the high pressure sensor you mentioned earlier. That means the
fan is trying to blow air, but it's backing up. Another possibility
is the motor overheating and triggering it's thermal protection switch,
which will reset when the motor cools orr.

CY: More likely a temperature sensor near the top of the furnace.

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
either bad motor or dirty coil.
More than likely coil.
Motor is not hot to touch.

The motor isn't over heating, so it and the High Limit are working
correctly,
and the problem is that something is obstructing air flow downstream from
the blower--like a coil full of lint and debris, which got that way due to
the filter not being changed monthly like it's supposed to be.

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
$80

What it cost to get the same basic answer your got from the first tech; the
coil needs to be cleaned. Have whichever outfit will charge less do it.

CY: Cheaper isn't necessarly gooder, the cheap company may use sloppy labor.

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

PSC is Permanent Split Capacitor motor.

May I ask if the permanent split capacitor motor is the top smaller easily
replaced combusion air blower motor ... or if it's the bottom, larger
seemingly harder-to-replace house blower motor?

Donna

[edbedb]

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

PSC is Permanent Split Capacitor motor.

May I ask if the permanent split capacitor motor is the top smaller easily
replaced combusion air blower motor ... or if it's the bottom, larger
seemingly harder-to-replace house blower motor?
Donna

Yes, you may ask.

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
May I ask if the permanent split capacitor motor is the top smaller easily
replaced combusion air blower motor ... or if it's the bottom, larger
seemingly harder-to-replace house blower motor?

Does anyone know which one it is?

[Jeff]

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
May I ask if the permanent split capacitor motor is the top smaller easily
replaced combusion air blower motor ... or if it's the bottom, larger
seemingly harder-to-replace house blower motor?

Does anyone know which one it is?

Who knows?

It's a type of motor.

<URL: http://www.iprocessmart.com/leeson/leeson_singlephase_article.htm>

My guess is that it is the smaller motor that has the smaller
starting torque needs.

Doesn't seem like anyone here is doing anything but enjoying your misery.

Jeff

[Stormin Mormon]

Yep; I know.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
May I ask if the permanent split capacitor motor is the top smaller easily
replaced combusion air blower motor ... or if it's the bottom, larger
seemingly harder-to-replace house blower motor?

Does anyone know which one it is?

[Jeff]

Post by Stormin Mormon
Yep; I know.

Exactly what we all love about christians.

Jeff

[Stormin Mormon]

Convert; then you'll know, also.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Post by Stormin Mormon
Yep; I know.

Exactly what we all love about christians.

Jeff

[Jeff]

Post by Stormin Mormon
Convert; then you'll know, also.

Sorry, it goes against my beliefs of being nice to others.

Jeff

[Stormin Mormon]

Yes, you may.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

PSC is Permanent Split Capacitor motor.

May I ask if the permanent split capacitor motor is the top smaller easily
replaced combusion air blower motor ... or if it's the bottom, larger
seemingly harder-to-replace house blower motor?

Donna

[Stormin Mormon]

Still curious if the ducts up top of the furnace are hot. I'll insert some
American language translation.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:0V5nj.2759$***@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...

Can you help decode this for me? The furnace is working but I think only
because he changed a setting on one of the motors.

Here's what he wrote ...

Found PSC Motor Running slow

CY: The blower motor is running a bit slow. Could be bad motor, or mabye
needs a squirt of oil used for electric motors.

and High Limit kicking out
& re-setting

CY: The top of the furnace is overheating, the safety switch is shutting off
the gas to the furnace. This is a safety feature, to keep the furnace from
catching fire.

either bad motor or dirty coil.

CY: The coil he means is the part of the AC system that gets cold. The
evaporator is typically mounted over the top of the furnace.

More than likely coil.
Motor is not hot to touch.

CY: If the fan blower motor was bad, sometimes they will get very hot while
they are running.


$80

CY: About right for a house call and diagnostic.

[Jeff]

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Then call that company and ask what they charge to come out or if they
charge flat rate or hourly.

I called another company, as you advised, and they came out this morning.
They said they'd charge $80 to come out and that would be put toward parts.
They too were not sure what the problem was, but here is verbatim what they
wrote on the sales slip afterward.
Can you help decode this for me? The furnace is working but I think only
because he changed a setting on one of the motors.

I'm not a HVAC repairman, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

The ventilation motor, the one that blows the hot air, tend to be
multiple speed devices. There's usually jumpers somewhere to set that.
It sounds like he reset a jumper to a higher speed.

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
Here's what he wrote ...
Found PSC Motor Running slow and High Limit kicking out
& re-setting either bad motor or dirty coil.
More than likely coil.
Motor is not hot to touch.

The fact the motor is not hot leads to the motor not being bad. If it
runs and doesn't overheat it's probably OK.

You got a problem using google?

Here is the result for high limit kicking out:

<URL:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Heating-Air-Conditioning-696/furnace-heat-kicking-1.htm
/>

Shut it down and clean it out. You've gone this far. Don't let those
wimps stop you. Just make sure you put it back together right!

Jeff

Post by Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
$80

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

Post by Jeff
It sounds like he reset a jumper to a higher speed.

OK. That makes sense. I see a LOT of wires in there. Maybe he moved some
around. I should have taken a before/after photo. I did this time so when
he comes tomorrow I'll have something to show beforehand and after it gets
cleaned.

I never knew this cleaning stuff was so important.

BTW, how much do cleanings cost for most of you?
$400?

And, how often do you do them?

He will be here from 10am to 1Pm he said, so, it can't take longer than 3
hours.

Is this reasonable by normal standards?

Donna

[Stormin Mormon]

If it is the evaporator coil that needs cleaning, it might be a heck of a
lot of work. Depending how the unit is piped in, and how the sheet metal is
worked. Might need to take the freon out of the AC, and take the coil out
from over the furnace. That could be several hours work.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Post by Jeff
It sounds like he reset a jumper to a higher speed.

OK. That makes sense. I see a LOT of wires in there. Maybe he moved some
around. I should have taken a before/after photo. I did this time so when
he comes tomorrow I'll have something to show beforehand and after it gets
cleaned.

I never knew this cleaning stuff was so important.

BTW, how much do cleanings cost for most of you?
$400?

And, how often do you do them?

He will be here from 10am to 1Pm he said, so, it can't take longer than 3
hours.

Is this reasonable by normal standards?

Donna

[Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:53:50 -0700, Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
wrote:
I learned a lot but I still would like to know if I can ask some questions.

I posted a picture of the "evaporator coil" before cleaning here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/***@N07/

QUESTION 1: (see picture 1)
Why is there an "evaporator coil" in a heating system? Is it only because
it shares the same ductwork with the A/C? It seems to be a weak link with
respect to the dust that gets past the filters.

QUESTION 2: (see picture 2)
I don't see how I can get to the bacterial pad he put near the coil. Are
they supposed to last forever? I don't see how they can but I don't see how
I can replace it myself. Did I miss something?

QUESTION 3: (see picture 3)
Does that evaporator coil cleaner actually work more than a short while?
Bacteria can gro back real soon, so I was wondering if that disinfectant
actually works over the long term.If not, where do I spray it now that I
have a full can of it?

Thanks for your help,
Donna

[Stormin Mormon]

Yes, that's quite dirty.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:rs2oj.4801$***@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:53:50 -0700, Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
wrote:
I learned a lot but I still would like to know if I can ask some questions.

I posted a picture of the "evaporator coil" before cleaning here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/***@N07/

QUESTION 1: (see picture 1)
Why is there an "evaporator coil" in a heating system? Is it only because
it shares the same ductwork with the A/C? It seems to be a weak link with
respect to the dust that gets past the filters.

QUESTION 2: (see picture 2)
I don't see how I can get to the bacterial pad he put near the coil. Are
they supposed to last forever? I don't see how they can but I don't see how
I can replace it myself. Did I miss something?

QUESTION 3: (see picture 3)
Does that evaporator coil cleaner actually work more than a short while?
Bacteria can gro back real soon, so I was wondering if that disinfectant
actually works over the long term.If not, where do I spray it now that I
have a full can of it?

Thanks for your help,
Donna

[Stormin Mormon]

The next step, at least for me. Is to check to see if the furnace is really
over heating. I've seen a bad high limit switch. In that case, the furance
kept shutting down, but the furnace and the ducts never really did get hot.

So, I'd want someone (maybe the tech, maybe yourself) to see if the duct
gets very hot, where the duct comes out of the furnace. If dirty evaporator
is the problem, then the top of the furnace will likely be too hot to touch.
Most of the high limit switches I've worked on, run about 180 to 200 when
they trip off. And that's too hot to put your hand on.

Please go to the furnace and (very carefully) try to touch the grey metal on
top of the furnace, where the heat goes to the house. Is it burny hot, luke
warm, or room temp? That will tell us a lot. Also feel the top inch or so of
the furnace, where it meets with the ducts. Is that burny hot, luke warm, or
room temp?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Post by Stormin Mormon
Maybe the folks who build them would prefer that only
the trained techs work on them?

Well, the guy called yesterday and said a client cancelled and ended up
coming over 1 day early.

He fiddled with a paper clip in the combustion motor orifice but that
didn't solve anything. He looked about, here and there, and decided
something was wrong but he knew not what. He cleaned the flame sensor but
that didn't change anything.

He said basically what everyone here said. There is something wrong with
the flow of air because the furnace is shutting itself off. He said we'd
have to pay 400 for his son to come back and clean out the "condenser
coils". I was aghast that he was guessing what the problem was and that his
son was doing the work but he said he was qualified. So, I paid the $100
visit fee and 25% of the cleaning fee as what could I do (you all said we
have to bring over the tech folks).

My new question ... Is this a normal thing where the problem isn't obvious
so you start cleaning? It seems so based on the prior responses here but
I'd like to doublecheck, especially since four days takehome pay (for me)
are riding on this.

Thanks for your advice,
Donna

[rooster]

replying to Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coo, rooster wrote:
I believe the complexity of the mechanism may be beyond the skill of a novice
and tampering could result in a catastrophic failure such as a house fire and
that may be why there are no DIY instructions

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/amana-air-command-80-gas-fired-furnace-4-blinks-troublesho-703967-.htm

[Brent]

replying to Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coo, Brent wrote:
My furnace has been working great, but today it won’t work at all. I️ am
getting nothing

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/amana-air-command-80-gas-fired-furnace-4-blinks-troublesho-703967-.htm